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You've got it right. The horn sounds a perfect fourth lower than written, so to match sounding pitch with written pitch, the composer/arranger must write the part a perfect fifth higher (middle C becomes second-line G on a horn part in F).

You've probably also noticed that in older music, the horn parts do not have a key signature. There is only a notation on the horn part like "horn in Eb" or "horn in Bb basso", or the dreaded "horn in H" (thank you very much, Herr Brahms...). Strange as it may sound, this made life really easy for the natural horn player - regardless of the key of instrument called for, the horn part was written so that a written C was the tonic of work in question, which meant that the different hand postions stayed the same. The hand position for a written C, regardless of the key of horn called for, is open. As a very general rule, the horns were pitched in the same key as the music. So in Blah-blah's Symphony in D Major, the horn parts would be in D. Now, if Blah-blah had written his masterpiece, Symphony in A Minor, he would have written two of the horn parts in A, and the other two horn parts in C alto. Reason being is that the lowered third in a minor key, when played on a natural horn, is stopped (or hand muted, how ever you want to look at it). So if two horn players played a minor third on natural horns, one note would be open and the other would be stopped, a major faux-pas. If the second pair of horns is pitched a minor third above tonic, in this case C, minor intervals played by a horn in A and a horn in C would come out with both notes being open.

Now, let's for a moment pretend we are playing Blah-blah's Symphony in A minor, written in 1791 to commemorate the death of Mozart (Blah-blah was the only one who did this, by the way, and he had to finish it himself because Sussmeyer was out of town), and we are playing it here in 1999 on our shiny new modern valve-encrusted horns. The horn players get together before rehearsal to try to figure some things out, because one pair of horns is in A and the other pair is in C, but the problem is there are two transpositions for C, that being C alto and C basso, and the horn part doesn't specify which, and the horn players begin cussing the inaccuracy of Kalmus. The principal horn looks at the score and tries his part out a little, and knowing that a part in A basso would be extremely rare, is going to play his part by reading it up a major third, thereby placing the horn in a better-sounding range when playing with the winds. Now, most of the C horn parts you will find are C basso, but if the players were to read a part down a perfect fourth while the A players are reading up a major third, the interval between horns would be way too wide. So the C players deduce that the parts must be in C alto, and they will read them up a perfect fifth. For the natural horn players in 1791, they would choose the C alto crook over the C basso crook to put them in the correct range.

How many of us have either asked, during our student days, or heard from our students, "why don't they just print new parts in F for all this old junk and save me the hassle of learning to transpose all the time?"

"Good question, my young apprentice!" (hehehe...)

First of all, printed music is expensive. Imagine the cost of having all the parts re-written for horn in F. I think Mr. Thompson can shed a little more light on this. It's probably cheaper now that we have things like Finale on our computers, but you still have to pay some bloke to sit in front of a computer and plug the parts into the program, rather than have them engraved.

Second, from my own experience, having learned transposition in the days when a powerful desktop computer was a machine that had a whopping 8K of RAM and no hard drive, when I see an orchestral horn part that has been transposed for me, it makes things very difficult for me to play the thing. I remember playing Beethoven 7 a few years back (Beethoven, by the way, was a great admirer of Blah-blah, and predicted a brilliant future for the then 4-year old prodigy, but then again, Beethoven was deaf, so what did he know?). Anyway, the librarian passed out the parts and gave the horns parts in F. The two students in my section were of course overjoyed, but I was not. I had to work really hard at not reading the F horn part up a major third out of habit. After the first rehearsal, I explained to the librarian that I wanted the section to play from the original parts, and she said ok, no sweat, and told me that she didn't think we would want them. I said well, my students don't, but I do, and waving my hand in front of my student's faces, did my best Jedi Mind Trick, saying "these are not the parts you are looking for. You want the originals..."

Of course, all this really falls to pieces when we discuss Wagner and his rather twisted ideas about writing for the horn. The Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin springs to mind. For God's sake, man, pick a key and go with it!! Tuckwell has stated in his book "The Horn" that Wagner learned everything he knew about the horn from Franz Strauss, who as we all know didn't particularly like Wagner, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Herr Strauss threw a couple of curve balls at Herr Wagner just for fun when explaining the concept of writing for natural horns. Not to mention that Strauss was married to the daughter of a prominent local brewer, so he probably got all his beer for free, or at least at greatly reduced prices. Most people don't know that Strauss became a spokes model for Pschoor, the brewer, and his product took off like no other, attracting the attention of another brewer named Hacker, so they formed a partnership, and now Hacker-Pschoor produces some of the finest beers in all Bavaria. Unfortunately, Hacker-Pschoor is a transposing beer. You only have to remember that during Oktoberfest, if you order a beer in C alto, you will get a half-litre. If you order a beer in C basso, you will get a full litre. You have to pay close attention to the size of mug you are holding, because if you don't specify whether your festbier is in alto or basso, whoever is tending bar may try to fill your alto mug with basso beer, making a really big mess on the floor, or he may fill your basso mug with alto beer, making you feel cheated out of your DM 1.75.

Tuba players get the whole keg. And fistfights usually break out between the tubas and the horns as to who gets tapping and posession rights.

Apologies in advance,

For those uninitiated in the art of transposition, a brief background is necessary. Natural horns came with a set of tuning crooks that afforded a variety of key selections. Thus, if a particular work was written in A, then the player would put in the A tuning crook. Likewise, if the piece was written in C, then the C tuning crook was used.

As to the question of why this was done: On an unvalved brass instrument a particular series of notes are available. These notes are produced by overblowing the instrument and increasing the lip tension. Notes produced thusly are overtones which come of the fundamental. The fundamental is the lowest possible note available on an endblown tube. The series of notes that are produced from this are arranged in a predictable order.

A well-versed natural hornist would know which particular notes were naturally in tune, as well as which overtones needed to have intonations adjustments with the lip and/or hand. Also, chromatically altered pitches could be bent from these natural overtones, affording chromaticism.

There were 4 basic hand positions 1. totally removed from the bell, 2. our present day hand position, 3. 3/4 stopped (liked stopped horn but the heel of the hand is unsealed), and 4. stopped horn. For those uninitiated in hand horn, try this:

1. play a 2nd line g
2. play a 2nd space a using a 3/4 stopped position (you actually will bend down the pitch of the C
3. now with the hand fully stopped, play a B
4. next. play the C with your normal hand position

For modern day performers, performing on original (non-transposed) parts give us a clue as to effective performance. For instance if the original passage called for heavily stopped notes, it would be appropriate for us to use a more subdued shading and approach to this passage. Also, it can give us clues as far as intonation tendencies, as well.

THus, you need to know the relationship of the original key to that of the modern horn. Here is a procedure that should help clarify the procedure. I am giving you an example of transposint to D HOrn.

On a staff, write a whole note F-this represents the pitch of our instrument. Next write the note representing the tuning crook of the natural horn (D). Next, identify how far away the D is from our home pitch of F (a minor 3rd/or 1 1/2 steps). Thus, to play the same sounding note as the D instrument, we have to play(transpose) the note a minor 3rd lower.

Thinking down every note a minor 3rd may drive the novice crazy. Thus, I recommed plugging in an automatic key signature. Look at the key signature of this selection (90% will be in C). Put a whole note representing the key note (C) on the staff. Since we have identified that the D horn is a minor third lower than the F horn, we can use this same process in selecting an automatic key signature. Looking at the C (original key), locate the corresponding interval a minor third below this note; it is A.

So, if you play the music down a third, using the automatic key signature of A, you will successfully be able to play a D horn part. Since we have a variety of horn keys in which to transpose, you need to be aware of which are low transpositions (downward intervals) and which are high transpositions (upward intervals)

So, here is a handy-dandy chart for all you novices out there:

Low Transpositions:	Interval	Auto Key (orig. in C)
E	m2 (1/2 step down)	B major (or just think everything down 1/2st.)
Eb	whole step	Bb
D	m3	A
C	P4	G
B (stands for Bb)	P5	F
*H (stands for B nat.)	A4/D5	F#
High Transpositions:
G	Whole step up	D
A	M3	E
C alto	P5	G
B alto	P4	F

*This is the nasty one. It probably is best to read down a P5, then raise everything a 1/2 step. Thank the Lord this does not occur often! There are others that are less common, occuring mainly in operatic works. These are Db (down) and Ab. Ab is especially problematic as there are instances that this is done as a low and high horn transposition. There is no clear indication as to when this is done. However the general rule I have gleaned from the opera players on this list is that 19th C Italian opera composers tend to use the Ab horn as a low horn.

Can someone please enlighten me on this? He thinks it is just a macho horn players thing now. Or is that all it is?

You might try looking at the symphonic literature. much music was written for the natural horn during the period right after it was "discovered" by the orchestra. This is to say, the time period after it was found to produce a nice veiled, smoothe sound for the orchestra when the right hand was placed in the bell. Before this time, the open sound (without the hand in the bell) was considered quite raucous and abrasive, and as such, the horn was not suitable for such music. This is what I recall from my reading of the well-known Farkas book "The Art of Playing the French Horn".

In any event, have you ever played any Haydn or Beethoven symphonies or similar? In a single season of orchestral playing (4th part), I had to transpose music written for the natural horn in each of the following keys: C basso, D, Eb, E, F, F#, Ab, A, Bb, and B. Obviously, some of this music was written for natural horns built in those keys. In some pieces, the use of crooks is implied when you have a 6- or 8-measure rest with the annotation "Change to D" or "Change to A" or "Change to C". The music is ALL written, "In the key of C for the horn in D" (eg, Haydn's Italian symphony) and then, without key signature, the 4th part is asked to "change to A", whereupon the key signature is "In the key of C for the horn in A". I have also played some (Mozert? Beethoven?) stuff calling for two horns: Horn in C and Horn in Eb in the same passage! Key of C for both instruments! Talk about a way to confuse an unprepared band director! But this is standard in the orchestral literature. Band arrangements simply transpose it on paper for horn in F.

Anyway, As valve technology became available, ultimately the natural horn in the keys of F and Bb, sometimes A and F alto became more common. Piston valves of trumpets are just not practical for the horn. (Experimentally at a music store, I once played a $7,000 Yamaha with a piston thumb valve and hated it. Try it some time.) The rotary valve, though much harder to machine due to precision tolerances, is the only way to get practical valves for the horn. The reason seems to be speed. Rotary valve trumpets have a reputation for "extremely fast" action. I suppose this speed is required in order for the horn sound to not "break up" as I experienced on that Yamaha.

Anyway, aside from the digression into valve technology, your band director is obviously not familiar with much of the orchestral literature or he would know about such transpositions. My old just-for-fun horn is a no-name model in Bb with a thumb valve that can be used for transposing into A or for use in conjunction with stopping the right hand to avoid transposing the fingering down half a step while playing stopped passages (NOT muted passages, stopped passages. The sound is completely different. Read Farkas.) Ask your band director to play a "stopped" passage on a trumpet and then ask him what fingerings to use. He won't be able to tell you because there is no such thing as the "stopped" sound phenomenon on any instrument that I am aware of except the horn. Try playing some fast, stopped Prokofiev passages without knowing how to transpose. THAT will make a believer out of you! At least theese passages that I am familiar with are for Horn in F!

Next point: Have you ever noticed that most band literature is written for "Horn in F" or for "F horn". The "F" is definitely NOT for (F)rench!!! This term has carried over from orchestral literature into the band literature of the 19th century and onward where the world is usually written relative to C, Bb, or Eb instruments or for bass clef in concert pitch, even though these were Bb instruments. And then there is the horn. Our favorite anomoly. Both F and Eb exist. Ever played a C alto horn?

In summary, the older orchestral literature, being written for the instrument, "horn in X", was for the valveless natural horn, later for the horn with crooks, and then finally for the valved horn. Players need to be able to transpose in order to play music of this era because it seems to me that it represents 1/4 to 1/2 of all orchestral horn literature. (Please correct me if my guess is way of whack.) Band literature does not have this problem, because it evolved after the invention of the valved horn and after Horn in F and Horn in Eb became the first and second designs of choice, respectively. (Comments?) Furthermore, playing stopped horn requires knowledge of transposition.

Many publishers offer parts both in F and in the original key. But not all music is available this way. Even in the band music world, many older pieces have only Eb horn parts.

We do spend a great deal of time and energy learning how to transpose. It is understandable if we sometimes transpose with a bit too much bravura.

On the other hand, I sometimes find it easier to transpose than to read the transposed part. This is especially true for classical works by Mozart, Haydn, Betthoven, et al where the transposition is initmately related to the key.

Richard Strauss was one of the last great proponents of horn transposition. His revision of Berlioz's treatise on orchestration gives a late romantic explanation on why chromatic brass should transpose. There's an English translation available from Dover Books. Your band director should buy a copy and read it.

Hmm...though I went through the Eastman School of Music playing a no-name Eastern European compensating double with the standard rotary valves, for the last 25 years of amateur playing I have used a compensating Selmer (third valve ascending) with three piston valves (rotary thumb for F/Bb change). After all, the true "French" horn is called a "Cor a pistons." Of course, I have to put up with jibes such as "the alto horn section is over there, fellow!"

As far as transposition goes, all players of any instrument better have some facility if they wish to play professionally. Furthermore, the few times I have encountered F parts transposed from "natural horn" originals, I find them more difficult to read at sight (especially if I have played the originals before.)

I've never heard a satisfactory explanation. No doubt inertia is part of the answer.

Among the "explanations" I've heard...

1. Orchestras have a large investment in their music libraries and can't afford to buy new scores just to get the horn parts "fixed". [But couldn't they just buy the horn parts?]
2. If an orchestra were to transcribe new horn parts from it's existing music it would be infringing the original copyright.

The other side of the question is "Are 'Horn in F' parts readily available for works that originally called for horns in other keys?" If there is any truth to (2) then nothing will change until someone with the rights publishes such parts.

Beyond that, some people feel that it is important to have the music in it's original form to appreciate what the composer wrote. I don't buy it. Do clarinet players have a lesser appreciation of their parts as a result of the key signature matching both the music and their instrument? Is a contemporary composer similarly disadvantaged when writing for "Horn in F"?

I have perfect pitch, and I'd been playing piano for 7 years and horn for 2 before I figured out that I had perfect pitch and that was why my first notes of the day always startled me. Once I recognized the problem, and understood that there was a reas on I was disoriented, it ceased to be a problem: I just learned thatI needed to shift gears, as it were, when I switched instruments and I instinctively knew how to do that. Then picking up trumpet (Bb) a few years later was no problem.

We horn players with perfect pitch have a funky challenge: to reconcile the "horn" C to "concert" C somehow. Some people, as you do, play naming games. Some people, as I did, learn completely different sets of names for different instruments, and in the process can start to lose the fully-fixed pitch sense. I still have perfect pitch, but I don't always know what key I'm thinking in. (The fact is that perfect pitch is nothing more than pitch memory, and memory can adjust. I noticed that in my college orchestra, those of us who had perfect pitch tended to fluctuate up and down relative A440 throughout the month, usually together. The oboist continued to tune us off an electronically-metered A440, but we all fluctuated in our opinions about that A; sometimes it sounded flat or sharp to us, and we tended to agree about it, even though we could see the needle pointing right at 440. I'd be interested in hearing other experiences on that.)

Which insanity is better? For most practical purposes, you should do what works best for you. However, at the professional, esoteric level, I would argue for the latter (learning different sets of names), because a C scale should not sound exactly like a D scale, etc. [Look up "temperament" in the Harvard Dictionary of Music, read the various cross-referenced entries, and then come back to this paragraph.] I believe the unique character of each scale gives it a characteristic color, and I believe the "basic" pitch reference of each instrument contributes to that instrument's character. Granted, vertical harmony (tuning according to the chords in the ensemble) takes priority, but linear intonation (tuning according to the scale) is still relevant. I believe that playing horn (and transposing for horn in other keys) is best done by the clef system, where on some level you adjust yourself to the notion of a new C. But remember, this is all esoteric and utterly irrelevant for most players.

At any rate, it is not totally insane to refer to notes by concert pitch. At the professional level, you hear it a lot. When working with other instruments in an ensemble, it is essential, because non-transposing instruments tend not to be particularly fluent in "horn" pitch. However, beware that some conductors looking at the score would rather refer to what's written, others to what's sounded. You should be flexible and adapt to each conductor's preference without calling attention to it. Sometimes this is confusing; remember to smile.

Some quick notes on related topics:

Some reason that horn parts are not transposed:

• the transposed parts invariably contain a second-generation layer of errors
• the transposed parts obscure the relationship of written notes to natural horn harmonics, and the techniques that would be employed by a natural horn player (think about how you would play the first phrase or two of your favorite Mozart concerto on hand horn; it will give you some ideas about the dynamic shadings Mozart expected to hear)
• after years of transposing, most horn players are more reliable at transposing than they are at remembering written key signatures (which is why even modern music written for untransposed horn will have accidentals where other instruments have key signatures; take note, beginning copyists)

How to transpose?

• interval method: change each written note by a fixed interval, e.g. major second or perfect fourth
• clef method: imagine that the clef centers on a different line or space, and squint a little bit to read the score that way; at first, this is hard, but with practice it becomes second nature and quicker than the interval method
• combination of both: eventually most horn players develop an instinctive ability to transpose that is some combination of both, with various methods employed to figure out "hard" things. For example, when reading bassoon parts (don't ask), I imagine that the bass clef is actually a treble clef Eb horn part and drop it an octave; I imagine that the tenor clef is bass clef G horn. These are actually more indirect, but they're somehow easier for my twisted brain.

And finally, a handy trick for figuring out how to transpose a given key:

1. What is the relationship of your horn to that key? E.g., F horn and Eb parts: F to Eb is down a major second (whole step). Bb trumpet and D parts? Bb to D is up a major third.
2. Do that to the part! E.g., read the Eb part down a major second on your horn. For any written note, play the note a whole step lower. Written G is "your" F. Read the D trumpet part up a major third on your Bb trumpet: written G is "your" B.

Don't forget to learn the foreign names for keys. For instance, B natural in German is H, Bb is B, and Eb is Es. In French, D is Re. Etc.