Tuning (3)

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Tuning (3)

The only real problem we have is tuning. I have tuned everyone with a tuner before rehearsal in hopes that would help. But it doesn't seem too. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can make this better. I am open for ANY comments or suggestions! I REALLY need help! =) Thanks in advance!

Kristin Faulkner

Playing in tune is something that goes beyond just tuning the horns. The horn is such a flexible instrument that it requires an ear as keen as that of a string player, because it is so easy to play it out of tune. You need to get your section off by itself for some ear training. You want to learn to play chords in tune together; I like to build from the bottom up, so have the 4th horn play the fundamental, then add the 5th and get that in tune. Then add the third and get that in tune. Whoever is left can double the fundamental an octave higher. It may help to have your band director guide you in this until you start hearing it well yourselves. You should trade off on who has which note in the chord, and play all the different chords, so that you get them all in your ear. In a major chord, you want the root and the fifth to sort of buzz together, then the third needs to be just a trifle flat in order to be in tune. In minor chords, the root and fifth also are buzzy, but the third needs to be just a trifle sharp to be in tune. You can also practice playing octaves with each other, listening for beats and getting them to go away. When I play in a section, I always match the pitch of the note I'm playing to the player on my left. That player is supposed to match the player on his/her left, and so forth so the 1st horn sets the pitch. Hopefully the 1st horn has a good enough ear to be matching the rest of the band. When I play in a horn quartet, I like to have the 4th horn be the pitch determinator, and we all build on his/her pitch.

Mary Ann

Kristin,

If your horn section is all freshmen and maybe 8th graders they may not have any idea of what "in~tune" sounds like. The instruments might be "in tune" with the tuner but then the players just blow away and don't listen. I think I would start by having you and the other older player play 2 note chords and see if the new kids can spot when you are playing them intune or not. Start out playing REALLY out of tune with each other till the young ones have a clue. Ain't marching season grand.

Leonard/clueless in Laredo

An excercise I learned in college was to sit in front of a piano, play a note, release the note, hold down the sustain pedal, and play the same note on the horn attempting to make the piano string "ring". At first, you may have to play the note for several seconds while adjusting the pitch to the piano. With repeated practice, you should be able to make the note ring with decreasingly shorter notes as your ear for pitch improves. In time, you will be able to hear and adjust to another pitch very quickly.

Rick

First of all, back up off the freshmen.... we all started somewhere.
Secondly, my high school choir director had a great piece of advice for figuring out who is out of tune. Assume it's you. Yeah, it's meant to keep choirs from going flat, but it works for instrumentalists playing in a group as well. The idea is, if you're so high and mighty that you never stop to realize that you're human, and YOU'RE the one horredously out of tune, the problem will never be fixed. Also, if you are actively involved in making sure you're not the problem, that's half the battle right there. Then, if that doesn't work, don't bark at your section mates about their ineptitude. In fact, don't bark at all. Be a diplomat. Say something like "this note doesn't sound right, will you tune it with me?" or "we're having a problem hearing each other here." or something. But especially, don't lord over "your" section, because just because you want to achieve such and such a goal doesn't mean that someone in your section is just there to have some fun. Be tolerant of everyone. That's all. Happy tuning.

Nancy Cooper

Hiya,

One other thing to add to Mary Ann's excellent advice: many high school players don't know what playing out of tune is. I'm sure someone on this list can give a better and more technical description than I can, but getting someone to talk to them about difference beats and how to avoid them (and when to accept them...) will give them a more concrete idea of how to play in tune than the usual 'I think you're out of tune/flat/sharp/playing just/playing meantone...'

Here's an exercise that will help:

Have someone play a note, say a G in the staff.
Have someone (probably your best player) tune exactly with them, so there are no beats
Have the second player go sharp just a tad, so that the difference beats occur once a second.
Give them the explanation below of difference and additive tones.

This will give them a concrete example of what intonation is in an elementary way. I've found that this exercise combined with exercises as Mary Ann explains below go a long way towards taking the mystery out of playing in tune.

Now, plucked from my imperfect memory, an explanation of difference tones, beats, additives and stuff. This is definitely the layman's explanation and I hope someone with much better understanding, even if they are on an oreo-induced sugar high, might see to explain this better than I.

When two tones are produced at the same time the interaction of the waves produce other, less audible tones. The two strongest are the difference tones and the additive tones. If you used a synthesizer to produce a sine waves (sounds without overtones) and you played one pitch at 100 mhz and one at 300 mhz, you would also be able to hear one tone at 200 mhz (the difference between 100 and 300) and one at 400 (the sum of 100 and 300). In this case the two notes (100 and 300) would sound in tune because the 300 mhz note, the difference and additive tones fall on the overtone series of the lowest tone. It's when the difference tones don't fall on the overtone series that we hear it as out of tune.

Am I way off base (keep it to this subject, please!)

scottito

There are some things to know that will help you get your chords in tune. The first is to realize that if three people are playing and two of them are out of tune, there is NOTHING the other player can do to make it sound in tune. It's one of the ironies of playing. You don't learn what it feels like to play in tune until you play in a group that plays in tune, and you don't get to play in a group that plays in tune until you know how to play in tune.

If I'm playing second or fourth I don't tune to the oboe. I wait until I hear the first or third player and tune to them. In an ideal world tuning with the oboe would be just as good, but in reality it's better to play in tune with the horn player to your left than with the oboe.

The best way to learn how to play in tune is to play duets, either with someone who knows how to play in tune, or with a teacher present to help you out.

Here are some guidelines:

Make sure your horn is in tune with itself. If your first slide is pulled out an inch too far, and you play duets in Bb, you're going to have problems! (I've put instructions below on how to tune a double horn.)
Try not to correct the pitch of the horn using your right hand or chops while you are tuning it. The idea is to find out what the horn wants to do, not to see if you can make it play in tune.
Before you play the duets tune up with the other player. Make sure you are both warmed up before you tune, as things change as you warm up. Check open notes on both sides of the horn.
Practice playing open fourths, fifths and octaves. These are the intervals for which physics determine what is in tune rather than our ears. Learning to identify those sounds instantly and making the adjustments is the most important skill in learning to play in tune. Perhaps it's the places I play and people I play second to but I find that if I have the lower note of a horn fifth (ie I'm playing middle C and the other is playing the G above it) I must flatten the C a hair to get it to sound in tune. If I play the bottom note of a a perfect fourth then I must raise the pitch slightly. If are using just intonation (as most of us on the west side of the Atlantic do) then you will want to raise the seventh note of the scale (B natural in the key of C) and lower the third (E natural in the key of C).
While you are playing the duets, make the adjustments with your right hand, rather than with your chops. What a valauble skill to have! You'll learn that rather than pinching or closing your mouth or other dreaded mistakes, you can make tiny adjustments with your right hand to get the same effect.

How to tune a double horn: Please note that there are different methods that have been described on this list. They must work for some people; this is merely the method I have been taught and use. The best way to do this is with someone else looking at the tuner so you don't try to make adjustments as you play. Remember you are tuning the horn - not you.

Tune the C in the staff on the Bb horn. When it's in tune, tune the same note on the F side. You'll probably want to start on the Bb side because you may not have a slide to adjust without affecting the F side.
Once the Cs are in tune, tune up the B natural on the Bb horn, then the F horn. Then tune the Bbs on both horns.
Tune the A using first and second valve. If the first two slides are in the right place, that A should be slightly sharp. Get used to flattening it slightly with the right hand.
Tune the Ab using second and third valves. Adjust the tuning with only the third slide.

I hope this helps!

scottito

PS: Please credit Bob Ward and Wendall Rider for teaching me what is correct in this article, and blame me for any errors.

4) Practice playing open fourths, fifths and octaves. These are the intervals for which physics determine what is in tune rather than our ears. Learning to identify those sounds instantly and making the adjustments is the most important skill in learning to play in tune.

Hornlisters,

Please don't let the mention of "physics" scare anyone away from their attempts to learn to play in tune. Physics, after all, is an attempt to describe and make predictions about the natural world in scientific terms. The ability to identify an in-tune fourth or fifth is an in-born ability that we all have if we have functioning ears. I have tested this theory numerous times with very young students with very little musical experience. The ability to play in tune amid all the other stuff that we have to do is something that takes practice. Too many young players have been conditioned to think that playing in tune is some kind of unattainable goal; something that only professionals can do well. Not true! Playing with good intonation should be something that is emphasized from the very beginning stages.

CORdially,

Luke Zyla

During early sessions with my beginning students, I expose them to the visual concept of thinking of the air stream as a column of water flowing from deep inside and trying to project as much water as possible through the center of a hole in a piece of cardboard in front of them. This hole I call the Tone Hole. One of the objects is also to project the water without touching the sides of the hole. We then "explore" the size of the Tone Hole. This is done by holding a single note while slowly attempting to lower the pitch as much as possible without flipping to the next lower harmonic, and then, still holding the note, to raise the pitch as much as possible without flipping up to the next harmonic. As the student explores the hole, by feel and sound, he/she should find the exact pitch which is most efficient (takes the least effort) and provides the best sound. This pitch will be the pitch at which the horn most "wants" to resonate and which I call the Tone Center. In other words, it is the resonant frequency of the horn for that note. It is the pitch, for that particular note, to which the player must always aim. To do otherwise is to force the horn to sound at other than its natural resonant frequency, thereby reduce the efficiency of the horn, degrading tone, volume, endurance, range, and all the other good things we attempt to produce. Accordingly, to intentionally tune your horn to a pitch other than the desired one and then bend it, either with the lip or the hand (even though required in real life ensemble playing) is to degrade your overall product.

I hope my "soapbox" hasn't bored or offended anyone.

Regards

Bob Marsteller

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