Rossini - Thieving Magpie Overture

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Rossini - Thieving Magpie Overture

The Concert Society Orchestra ( Brisbane, Aust.) is currently rehearsing Rossini's "The Thieving Magpie" or for those who have more of an understanding of German than I do...."Die diebische Elster"

As principal horn, I have to play those horrible runs in bars 12 and 40. (If you've played it, you know the ones!) They look so easy as written on the music, but as the part is for horn in E (and my horn is obviously in F), it is truly horrible.

I appeal to you fellow french horn players for HELP! If Rossini had crook (very crook?) horns with no valves, how in God's name did they play it? And how can I play it? I am looking for an easier solution than hours of practice on the Cb major scale. Can it be done with one fingering ( as valveless horns would have had to do ) or did Rossini's horns sound horrendously out of tune? (I have a very old B&H F/Bb double horn )

Any suggestions? P.S. If you don't have the music, it starts (written in E) on G in the staff, in semiquavers ( or sixteenth notes for the Americans out there ) GABCDE then quaver (eighth note) triplets (top of staff) FDG'ECG' and ends on a D. ( It would be easy if I had an E horn! )

Well, you could always purchase an E. Schmid horn, which can be tuned to an F#/B horn, and then use Eb fingerings...

Cathy Ferguson poses a very good question concerning the F# scale, and other passages in the Overture to La Gaza Ladra. I have found that bringing your knuckle higher over the first branch loop affords a faster finger action. Such a position archs the fingers more, thus making the more "piston-like" rather than the slower "squeezing action." Another thing you might wish to consider is getting an A Tuning crook for your horn. Most manufacterers will do this upon request at a reasonable price. However make sure to stipulate that you want a main tuning slide with additional tubing that equates the length of the second valve on the Bb Horn! With this, you can still adjust your valve loops and tuning slides on both sides of the horn. When properly tuned, you will have an instrument pitched as an E-A horn. This means that you can play works written in E horn AS WRITTEN. As a caveat, this is no magical cure. You trade one set of problems for another. For instance, the resistance is much greater, thus you must compensate for it. Additionally, it takes quite an adjustment for you to compensate your expectations for the pitches as all notes are coming out 1/2 lower than which you are accustomed. All problems aside, I feel there are more benefits in using such a device, all of them musical. The main advantage is the tone being decidedly more dark. In orchestral performance, I believe that one should attempt to adjust ones timbre according to the original tuning crook. To illustrate this, try the horn calls in the last movement of Brahms Symphony No. 1 on your C crook (F horn with the 1st & 3rd valves). Notice the color. Now attempt to approximate this on your mormal performance. However, for those wishing to use an E/A tuning slide, you should be able to play your orchestral parts (or solos) using the traditional transposition methods in case you forget to pack your crook before the concert. (I've known such instances to occur-YIKES!!!)

Interesting response but i have a question..........why not simply wood shed until you can play the(all scales at all tempi...with in reason of course) fingerings are not difficult to work out......use metronome and up it one notch at a time! you will get there IMHO

C'mon, folks. No horn problem is unsolvable.

FIRST, ANALYZE THE PROBLEM...
La Gazza Ladra, aka Diebische Elster, aka Thieving Magpie is an example of a phrase that is difficult because the 3rd finger, once pushed down, is hard to lift back up, especially if the 2nd and 4th fingers are held still. Consequently, everything after the G# (Ab) starts to get behind and you stumble over the rest. To understand why this happens, try a simple experiment. Rest your fingers on the keys of your computer. Try to raise ONLY the 3rd finger. See how far you don't get. This is just how hands are built. Learn Schumann's lesson: you can't change it, and you'll only hurt yourself trying.
....SO YOU CAN SOLVE IT
Now let your 4th (pinky) finger move freely and repeat the 3rd finger lift. A little easier, right? Lesson: take that pinky out of the hook. Get a crutch/duck's foot/octave key/whatever you want to call it.
Now also let your 2nd finger move freely and repeat the 3rd finger lift. Easier still? Right. Lesson: when lifting the 3rd finger in La Gazza Ladra, allow the 2nd finger to lift freely as well. Break the usual rule about keeping your fingers on the keys. It won't hurt to let them fly around a bit on this phrase.
SECOND, PRACTICE
Some things are just hard and require woodshedding. Since you know the 3rd finger is the problem, work on that detail. Practice mentally and then physically, paying special attention to deliberately getting your 3rd finger back off the key.
THIRD, RELAX ALREADY
You don't HAVE to finger this sucker so carefully. If you have the notes in your head, blow freely, and double-tongue decisively, you can play the whole darned run on 123 on either horn. Even if you don't perform it that way, you ought to practice it that way, so that you can get the feeling of ease, work on the shape of the phrase, and get over your anxiety.
FOURTH, CONSIDER ALTERNATE FINGERINGS
A double horn comes standard with enough alternate fingerings to solve any problem, if you take the time to understand the problem you're trying to solve. Since we've worked out that the 3rd finger is the likely culprit, we can simply look for a set of fingerings the detour around the 3rd valve.
Try this on all Bb horn: F# 12, G# 2, A# 1, B 2
and now switch to F: C# 12, D# 2, E 0
and now finish it however you please
Yes, some of those notes are out of tune. But the run is quick, and your determination (and the lesson you learned in step 3) will get the pitches where they belong, or close enough.
FIFTH, KEEP THE MUSICAL POINT FOREMOST IN YOUR ATTENTION
This should be light, agile, and cute. Keeping your attention on the effect you desire, and trusting your body to figure out a way to deliver, you will be able to relegate the physical activities to their proper nonpriority. Don't allow your anxiety to make it sluggish, heavy, loud, or clumsy. If the technical challenge ever causes you to lose the spirit of the thing, go back to playing it all on 123, singing it, and imagining it until you have the mood right again.
SIXTH, GOOD LUCK.

Because my fingers have failed to respond to years of technical study I have had to devise a facility at employing alternate fingerings forcing some unlikely combinations in tune. LA GAZA seems to defy any sensible possibilities even when utilizing 7th harmonics. It works nicely on the Natural Horn (F side 2nd valve) as Rossini envisioned it but you must have confidence in your right hand skill and lip accuracy.<BR>

Try switching slides around! Replace your Bb side 3rd valve slide with the F side 2nd valve slide. Slam your 3rd finger down and let it sleep that way - you now have an 'A' Horn and can play the scale with "Bb" fingerings "non-transposed" (Bb side only) G (1) A (0 or 12) B (2) C (0) D (12) E (2) F (0) D (12) G (0) E (2) C (0) G (0) D (12) G G G (1)

[ remember to put 3rd valve down and ignore it]

This equals the fingering pattern for a G scale starting on D (F side D(1) E(0-12) F#(2) G(0) A(12) B(2) C (0) etc.)

You may have to push other slides in better intonation.

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