Yamaha 667/667v - worth the extra 2k?

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Yamaha 667/667v - worth the extra 2k?

I am considering purchasing either a Yamaha 667 or 667v, in the very near future. I realize that the 667V is the *custom* version of the 667, but I wonder if the extra 2k or so is worth it? Does the 667V have better *playability* tone etc that justifies the expense? Or, is the difference truly insignificant?

I currently play a Bach single F (student), and have a 667V on a short demo loan from my local music store.

Thanks for your experience

I have owned many different horns and would like to offer my opinion as one of them was a 667. I think that the Yamaha 667 is a well designed horn, especially for the money. It played wonderfully and mechanically was a good horn. It was well focused and predictable. The consistency of quality is not as good with a production horn as a hand made horn so you need to make sure you get a good one. In my opinion, you have a better chance of getting a good horn "right out of the box" with a Yamaha than with most production horns. I sold my old 667 to a friend and he loves it.

The most important concern is that you get a horn that is right for you. The 667 is a rather bright sounding horn. I naturally play with a pretty dark sound and it worked well for me. I had a student who played with an "edge" most of the time. The 667 was a weapon in his hands! Some people say that those who play "small horns" are always trying to sound big and those who play "big horns" are always trying not to sound tubby. There may be some truth to that and the mouthpiece you play on is certainly a factor as well.

If I were to buy another 667, I would have a brace added between the top of the horn and the valve slides. Some have had problems with the joint at the top of the valve cluster breaking loose, probably caused by stress on the valve section. You should try a 667. If you like your sound, and the way it plays, who cares if it costs less? Just make sure you get one with good valves.

I played a 667V once and thought it was a great horn. It may be a "better" horn than a 667 but it certainly wasn't twice as good and it cost more than twice as much. It has a slightly larger bell than the 667 (among other differences). I thought the 667V was a really good horn, but for my money, I would look for a really good 667. If money is no object, the 667V might be worth the difference. Some of my opinion could be colored by the fact that the 667V on display at a workshop had a loose valve, something you don't expect of a new horn at this price! I now play on a Paxman 25 and I like it a lot. If I were looking to spend less money, I would consider the Yamaha 667 a bargain. Just my opinion!

A question came up regarding my demographics in making a recommendation on the type of horn. I am an adult in the 10W 30 something range (quickly approaching 10w 40!). Money is not really the issue in my decision in that either model is within my capabilities, but frugality is definitely intruding (or more accurately, my wife's frugality)

My objectives are to play in church, which I have been doing since I started, and small groups around the area (hence my desire for a smaller sounding horn as opposed to the 668 or 8D, etc) I have been playing for 2 months now. As an amateur musician who plays piano, classical guitar and trombone, I fell in love with the horn while listening to a group at the Dallas Airport (of all places) a couple of months ago. I have been taking lessons since then and plan to continue for as long as my work schedule will allow me. (I do a lot of mouth-piece buzzing on the road!) Is something such as the 667 or 667V unreasonalbe for me? I don't think so, nor does my instructor, but I don't want to spend more than I need to.

Thanks for all of the input so far, and if there are anymore comments I would gladly receive them.

One other question about the horn comparison. If I had the two horns side-by-side, would I be able to tell a difference in their playability, particularly in the upper registers? The student single I currently play is definitely inhibiting me in the upper registers. I found that both the mouthpiece and the 667v opened this up for me. The yamaha mouthpiece helped on the student instrument, but it still was not as good as on the 667v. (The student mouthpiece is a Bach 11)

I play a Yamaha 867, which I like very much. When Yamaha was making the 667 & 867 horns, they seemed to be identical in many ways, but the 867 was more "custom" and seemed to be a step up in quality. The 867's were discontinued around 1992/3.

I have played several 667's and 667V's at workhops, and notice that they are NOT identical in wrap (as the 667/867's were). The 667V has a tighter wrap and seems to gets a more covered sound. I think the two horns are very different, and you would certainly notice the difference if you played them back to back. I would recommend that you do try them both, if money is not the ultimate factor in your decision. If church jobs/freelancing is your purpose, either horn would be fine. I couldn't tell you which one is better [for you].

Good luck in finding a good horn. I personally think any horn Yamaha makes is a good value for the money.

In my mind, it depends on what you want to do with the horn. If you want to hang onto it as a hobby, play with your community orchestra, do anything other than make a living with it, don't buy the custom. But, if you want to feed yourself with your horn, go for the custom. You're going to have to buy that quality of horn eventually, so you might as well do it now. The custom version is simply better built, which makes a world of difference. (Ever wonder why the new Conn 8Ds aren't as good as the old 8Ds? Conn says the horn hasn't changed, the only thing that's changed is who's making it. Aha!) The 667V is, without a doubt in my mind, the best factory built horn in America. The difference that you might not be able to hear now could very well be the difference between winning an audition and coming in second. Hope this helps!

The 667 and the 667V are similar in the design of the wrap (Geyer), but that is where the difference ends. Yes, they are both quality instruments, but the 667V has some different variants on the Geyer wrap AND has the now famous dual-plane thumb valve, which has a lot to do with its excellent playing characteristics. The difference is well worth the price. Ask your dealer if there are any demos available for sale, and you can shave the price gap by a few hundred dollars.

If you want more info about what the dual-plane valve is/does, ask your Yamaha dealer, or check out Osmun Brass; I'm sure that Bob Osmun will have something on it.

The difference is well worth the price. Ask your dealer if there are any demos available for sale, and you can shave the price gap by a few hundred dollars.

One real question that should be asked is how old Kevin is and where he is in his playing as well as where he intends to go. I had this discussion last night with a really good friend of mine, neither of us own our own horns. We're both freshmen in college and are majoring in music. However, the question was raised of, if the resources existed, would we buy a Lawson (or some such "good" horn) or just go for an 8D or Yamaha? I have only been playing for 6 years now, I don't specialize and play EXCLUSIVELY in one range. I have to blend with strings sometimes, woodwinds, brass, piano, playing solo, etc. If I were to buy an expensive horn now, I may end up having a $6,000 instrument on my hands that I can't sell and that doesn't play how I need it to. Heck, another one of my friends currently has a Yamaha 868 that she can't sell. This is just something that might need to be explored. Personally, if I had the money to decide between a 667 or a 667V, I would go for the 667 and use the $2000 to get a lesson with Dale Clevenger and then use what's left to buy great recordings. That will do more for your learning at the point you may be at. From what Kevin wrote, he's playing on a student model so it's not really clear if he's ready to graduate from college or if he's just starting out and in 8th grade or whatever. These might be something to think about though. :-)

We're both freshmen in college and are majoring in music. However, the question was raised of, if the resources existed, would we buy a Lawson (or some such "good" horn) or just go for an 8D or Yamaha?

It is interesting to note that you classify the "goodness" of horns by how expensive they are. Really, you should be deciding what kind of sound you want, and finding a horn to fit that sound. The Lawson, the Conn 8D, and the Yamaha 668 are all big Kruspe horns, but all have significantly different sounds. Personally I'd rather have my 8D than a Lawson, Lewis, Englebert-Schmidt, Alexander, Yamaha custom, whatever. My horn does what I want it to do and gives me the sound that is closest to what I strive for. It's not that any of the above are not excellent horns, and well worth their price if it's the sound you want, but a big price tag doesn't guarantee you'll be happy with what you've got.

I don't specialize and play EXCLUSIVELY in one range. I have to blend with strings sometimes, woodwinds, brass, piano, playing solo, etc. If I were to buy an expensive horn now, I may end up having a $6,000 instrument on my hands that I can't sell and that doesn't play how I need it to.

Growing up with a father that was a band directer, I had the idea that one horn should do everything ingrained in my head. Solo, orchestra, chamber, whatever, one horn should do it all. Only recently have I broken with this idea. Trying to make a big horn blend well with a string quartet for the Mozart Quintet was almost more effort than it was worth. I don't think you're ever going to find one horn that will suit as well in an orchestra as in chamber music.

Heck, another one of my friends currently has a Yamaha 668 that she can't sell.

This is yet another area that needs to be explored. It will be harder to sell a non-custom horn than a custom one. When you get rid of it, you want as much money for it as possible, and the "V" series will resell for a larger part of the original value than the normal line.

I agree that Conn 8Ds and Yamahas have worked well for many, including myself! Don't consider it SETTLING for one. You need to try before making any rash decisions. Find the horn that best fits you and not what everyone thinks or what is the most expensive!

The horn is easy blowing, with a clear tone, good intonation, perfectly balanced. High and low registers are smooth, and the intrument has an equal sound throughout the registers. As a 2.horn it's of course important to me that the low register is clear, in tune and well sounding, and it is.

Those of my colleagues and friends who have tried my horn, all agree that it is very free and easy blowing. (To the extent where most of them didn't like it, should be noted...)

This means that a certain amount of control is necessary to get the best out of the horn. There is simply very little resistance in comparison to, say an Alex or Engelbert Schmidt.

They also agree it has a wonderfully clear and rich sound.

The instrument is light weight compared to most other double horns, which for me helps to get a 'free' feeling about my play.

I'm a happy customer.

Sincerely

Jesper Nordin

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